Your Story Matters: An Interview with Fashion Designer Kate Pierre

Kate Pierre is the designer, pattern drafter, cutter and stitcher behind the brand KATE&FRANCES.

With over 20 years of industry experience, she has worked around the world in a variety of roles and companies, but she now calls Vancouver home.

Of New Zealand and Trinidadian descent, Kate has always had a fascination for identity, self expression and the psychology behind fashion, and with her core values of honesty, integrity, creativity and representation firmly ensconced in her brand.

Disclosure: This interview and instagram series is part of a brand partnership with Kate&Frances. No links are affiliate meaning I receive no profits from current or future purchases from Kate&Frances. The partnership originated in shared values including congruent self-expression, racial justice, and empowered storytelling.

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Dana Ray: I want to start with this quote from your article for The Great Canadian Woman. 

I want to show strong, courageous and unique people in my images. I want to show and share my story with the world, because I think it is so important to know that your story does have value, and that there will be someone, or many someone’s out in this world that need to hear it.  

We know there needs to be more representation of People of Colour in positions of authority, in management within corporate companies, in creative fields, entrepreneurs, especially females of Black, Indigenous, PoC and Mixed Race ethnicities. We will get there, by sharing our stories, by creating connection.

Kate Pierre:  That got me all teary. Haha.  I should also admit I'm a crier.

Dana Ray: Me too. When I hear true things, I get teary.

Kate Pierre: I think that we become the people we needed when we were either growing up or  who we are now. In Vancouver, I feel I need those strong, courageous people. I don't have them. And if I don't have them, how am I going to be strong and courageous? How can I get there? And it's not an easy thing to do, for anyone to do.  And especially so for those adults who as a kid, was that shy, timid little kid that wouldn't say boo to a freaking ghost.

We need strong and courageous people. No matter what we do, no matter who we are or where we are. We need to have those people who are strong in their beliefs, in their convictions.

Dana Ray: Where does fashion and design come into the strong, courageous and unique? What I'm hearing is that when it comes to being courageous and strong, and unique, those things take place through the story we tell in our minds and the stories we tell in our bodies. 

Kate Pierre: It's not about being the person who stands out in the crowd. Sometimes being the strong, courageous and unique person is the one that just is wearing all black, sitting quietly in the crowd. And that's how they feel strong. They feel courageous. They know they’re unique. It’s not about what we wear so much. It's more about how we feel in it. For example when I was wearing my Emerson dress yesterday, I felt  I could take on the world. I felt I could do anything that I wanted; nothing was going to stand in my way. And it was just a dress! But there was something powerful in that dress. I was the strongest, most courageous, the most unique person in the room.

Emerson Dress. Shop here.

Strong and courageous could also be someone who wants to stand out, who wears the brightest colors, who spends hours on their makeup. And that's amazing. Because to me that is also showing strength.

Dana Ray: So it's not, it's not about a thing. It's about the congruency of what makes you feel strong.  I think that ties into the last part of this quote, that where you say, it's so important to know that your story does have value, and that there will be someone or many someones out in the world that need to hear it.

Kate Pierre: I say that for me as much as for anyone else. Everyone's story does have value. We may not realize our story has value until we tell it to someone. Or we might not know our story has value and we tell that story to someone, and they take it away, and they use it in their life, and we never know about it. But I think it's having faith that your story does matter. What you do, does matter no matter who knows it or who doesn't know it. 

Chances are there's going to be a few people in the crowd that can relate to it. And that's what we do as humans, that's what we want. We all want that connection. And to be able to be accepted for who we are, no matter what. And to have respect for our stories.

Dana Ray: Our feeling unique and strong seems very tied to our stories. So the things that we make or choose to wear can come from our story, they can be part of expressing where we've come from and celebrating the value of that.

Kate Pierre: Clothes have different values to different people. And it can be dependant on where in the world you are from, your clothing tells the story. It can tell where you're from based on the fabric type, the fibers and the yarns that are used, and the patterns. It can tell your story, reveal the people who went before you; tell their story as well. And it shows that you have pride, that there is strength, and that is incredible.  Origins contribute to your identity, which form your self expression. And not everyone has that or even knows their family history. And if you can trace your story back generations then that's so powerful.

Dana Ray: How did you come to be in this field and practice this craft? Tell us the story!

Kate Pierre: From a young age, I realized that myself and my siblings were a little different from some of the kids in my neighborhood.  We lived at the bottom of the South Island of New Zealand, which is as far removed from anything as anything can be. It’s a beautiful place and has beautiful people. And I wanted to fit in; I wanted to be  like everyone else. I looked for patterns and similarities in groups of people. Why are these people the same? And why are they in that skirt?  Why is she different?  And this helped me find patterns.  And I realized that clothing was one way that we form a community. We dress in a certain way to fit in. On some kind of subconscious level, that’s where the whole fashion thing started. 

When I was in high school, I started making my own clothes. And I would make things that no one else had. And I did kind of stand out. I was just like, “Yeah, I made this dress! And I made these pants and I knitted this jumper, etc.”

A friend of my sister’s was in her first year of fashion design school, and I spoke to her about it. She suggested that I get work experience while I was still at high school, so I started going into a design studio, sweeping the floors, making cups of tea, hand stitching the hem of wedding dresses and just doing whatever was needed. And then I went to design school too. Fashion has been my life ever since.

Dana Ray: And what led to your specific designs?

Kate Pierre: My dad is from Trinidad and Tobago. And growing up, we didn't really know that side of our family. So I decided to go to the Caribbean and discover my roots. I went during Carnival. It was a bit of a culture shock, as it's quite different to New Zealand. And I didn't really know what to expect. But I loved it. I met a lot of family. I got to experience the culture. There are so many different faces, so many different places, so many different features. And I could see part of myself in these people. And that's where the representation comes in. Because when we say “when we see ourselves”, it makes a huge difference. It's like I belonged. That's when I started realizing that I needed to be surrounded by people who look like me, or who have the same kind of values that I do. 

And then when I arrived in Canada, and specifically into Vancouver, I couldn't find the type of clothing that I wanted to wear. It just wasn't here. And I was just , “Why don't I just make it? Why don't I just do it?” Because if there's one person--me--who wants to buy these clothes, then there's bound to be other people who also want them.  So I just did it. Kate & Frances was launched three years ago.

Dana Ray: Where did “Frances” come from?

Kate Pierre: Frances is my middle name. I was kinda named after my Dad’s Mum, my Trinidadian grandmother.  Kate and Frances are the two parts of me. There's the Kate part. And then there's the Frances part. There's the creative side and the more business minded side.  I believe that we have two voices in our head; we have the ego and then we have the Self. And I feel  there’s sometimes this battle between these two voices and they have to find a way to live together, they have to be able to co-exist. It's the two parts of me trying to find that balance.

Dana Ray: So the parts of yourself trying to create your vision in a city where you didn't see what you wanted to express.

Kate Pierre: There are not a lot of Black or Brown people here. When you're out on the street, and you see other Black or Brown people, you always say hello, especially if it's  an older person. It’s this unspoken thing that we do. Because we know that there's not a lot of people like us here. It's kind of like finding your little community.

And in the city  sometimes it feels  there's this disconnectedness and it's a little bit false and a little bit fake and a little bit pretentious. Maybe, maybe that's also just through my lens. 

Dana Ray: It’s so interesting how different cultures work. But it's having the experience of being in a place where there's a sense of dis-ease or not belonging.

Kate Pierre: It’s interesting, because you find those people that you connect with, and then you create that little bubble. No matter where I've traveled to, I've always found people to have  these really random conversations with. And that's what I love. 

Dana Ray: I want to talk about the rest of this quote.

We know there needs to be more representation of People of Colour in positions of authority, in management within corporate companies, in creative fields, entrepreneurs, especially females of Black, Indigenous, PoC and Mixed Race ethnicities. We will get there, by sharing our stories, by creating connection.

Kate Pierre: I think even before 2020 hit, bringing with it the current Anti Racism Movement, I think we all knew that we needed to see more women, especially women of colour,  in higher positions within companies, especially corporate companies. It changes the whole vibe of that company. There needs to be more people of color in positions of power, end of story. And no matter what level of the company you enter, and you don’t see someone who looks like you, you tend to stay at that level. But when you do see someone who looks like you, you’re more likely to think “I can move into a higher position too.” It's this unspoken kind of connection. When we see people who look us doing other things, there’s that Seth Godin quote--

Dana Ray: -- “people like us do things like this.”

Kate Pierre: Yes! It makes it easier when we have people of different experiences, or of different cultures, or different backgrounds that are being hired into companies, that align to the objective or to the mission, then you can you attract more of those people into that company. And then that company can transform into being more inclusive than what we have seen before, of companies run by white males.

And in fashion a lot of Black culture has been taken and used, without acknowledgement for profit.  

We also need to see more Black and Brown people in photo campaigns. And not just a size six, or size eight, it's all body shapes. It's the whole shebang, because more often than not Black bodies are different shapes and sizes, then white bodies. That's just how we are. And we need to start showcasing this. And I know that that's an area that I need to work on in my business as well. I totally get that. We need to have different shades of people, of different backgrounds, and especially mixed race peoples.

I can talk about this for hours, but being mixed race, you can feel you're part of two worlds. There's the white side, and then there's the Black side. How do you be yourself when there's no one to show you and not even your parents can show you that either? Because they're either white or they're Black.  How do you know? How are you supposed to behave? What are you supposed to do? What are you supposed to say?

Dana Ray: Elaine Welteroth was the first black editor of any of the Vogue, she was Teen Vogue editor from 2015 to 2017. She’s biracial. And she talks about her experience of living in-between cultures.

Kate Pierre: My experience growing up in New Zealand is kinda unique. We didn't have access to what was happening so much in the States, as we grew up in the 80s and 90s. We didn't have the internet like we do now. We weren't really taught about slavery in schools. New Zealand has its own race relation issues with Maori, the indigenous people of the land. But I have to say that the New Zealand government, in their relationship with Maori is more progressive. It’s not perfect by any means. We do sing the national anthem in Te Reo Maori before English. We also have a lot of Pasifika people, and so our communities are quite unique compared to a lot of other countries. And it's within these cultures, that are so warm and inviting and friendly that make the New Zealand culture quite unique and special.

And then when I arrived in Canada, I was totally surprised. I stayed with a friend in Calgary when I first arrived and I really had no idea what to expect but I did not expect to hear people yelling out, “Go back to the reservation.” It was really eye opening.

Dana Ray: I want to hear you talk about the design of the pieces themselves. One of the descriptions that I've seen you use is “architectural.”  Tell me more about where you get these images of the lines and construction and , tell me about that process?

Kate Pierre: The process most people use is to sketch the design on notepad or in, say, Adobe Illustrator. And then you develop the style from there. That's how the corporate world works. I understand why it's done that way, as you have a large team that you need to communicate with. 

For me, I tend to dig into the details. If I see a detail that I like, I will store it away in the back of my brain sometimes for years, sometimes for days before I sketch it out. And then I kind of mull it over. And then when I come to  actually designing a collection, I don't sketch my designs. I have the fore mentioned details, whether that's a series of pleats or a seam line, and I start to think about silhouettes. I start patternmaking with these specific silhouettes and details in mind.  As I draft, I’m not sure what the end product will be.  I may start exaggerating details such as the pleats, as  I really love oversized pleats. Once I finish drafting, I’ll cut a sample, stitch it and then I’ll then put it on myself and also on a mannequin and start draping. And because I've got these full body shapes, I have this excess fabric that I can play around with, that I can move around the body.  My process is not conventional in any way, shape, or form. And it's a mixture of pattern drafting, and then draping. Each pattern has a new way of finding it’s way into creation - I’m creating stories within the collections

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Dana Ray: It’s highly experimental, tactile, and playful. I can see why you would use the word architectural. You have so many, you have so many lines and shapes in your pieces.

Kate Pierre: I am also building it literally with my hands rather than starting with a concept. It emerges from the process of construction, which is really fun.  Everyone has their own way of designing.

Because I do it all myself, I have the ability to be able to  switch things up or I think it through and keep it all in my head as I don't have to be able to communicate this all to another team.  Even as I grow as a company, I still want to keep this process. Because I think when we create things with our hands, and we wear these creations in the fitting process, we’re able to feel it, to be able to move in the garment and to function in it, and create a garment that is highly functional.

Dana Ray: Which is probably why my first instinct in putting some of your shirts on was to take them dancing! Your clothes feel like they are made to be moved in.

Dana wearing the karter bulb sleeve tee. Black top with flowing lines and billowing sleeves. Dana stands in marble hall at Lincoln Memorial. Washington Memorial seen in background.

Kate Pierre: I think that's part of the freedom of the fit.  It allows  you to do anything!  You go about your day, and do anything that you need to do and still feel good and still look good.

Dana Ray: There’s a feeling I could wear them to look super cute or I could wear them on a hike. It felt they could belong in either story.

Kate Pierre: I've never taken anything hiking before! But it shouldn't matter that these pieces weren’t designed with hiking in mind. If you like it and you feel good, wear it to go hiking! I think that's one of the biggest compliments you can give a designer. To say, “I'm taking your design and taking it out of the realm where you thought it would be in and put it somewhere else.” Because it shows that design can stretch across boundaries.

Personally, I need to be able to have garments that I can go to school and teach in and I need garments that I consider comfy and still feel good. I don't want to be changing garments based on the activities I’m doing throughout the day, it's just  a waste of time.

Dana Ray: What do you teach?

Kate Pierre: When I left the corporate world, I started doing a little bit of teaching within a fashion school. I love it. I didn't think I would love it quite this much. It's also (unintentionally!) given me another voice for representation. And it kind of didn't dawn on me until a couple of months ago where I started teaching two new classes. And I was like , Oh shit, I am the representation! I have people looking at me. I want them to know that when you go into the industry, you can do anything that you want to do. And after 20 years in the industry you can teach the next generation. There are people like us doing things like this! You can do this. The looks on their faces just melted my heart and I realized that I have a responsibility as well.

It lit that fire under me.  What if I had had a design teacher who was a PoC, where would I be now? What if I had had that representation? And what if a lot of other people had had that? And what if white students had had Black teachers? And I think it loops back into that whole sharing of stories, that when we can see someone else's perspective, whether it be through education, and what they're teaching us, or whether it be about life. And I think that is what is going to create change, when we start to share our stories. It starts with our everyday conversations. We’re not going to change things at a government level right away. It's gonna take too long and we don't have that long. It's the conversations we have with students, it's the conversations that they then have with their friends. You now have this knowledge. Now you can't pretend you don't know. And how are you going to use it?